Best Rach #3 Performance/Recording?

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Rachmaniac
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Postby Rachmaniac » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:46 am

Amphissa wrote:I think perhaps you are confusing virtuosity with musicality. The current-day expectation that the longest and most difficult version of a work must be played, and that cuts or alternate versions are an indication of inadequacy, is a product of reviewers and "critics" picking nits, and competition. It is not necessarily an issue of inherent "worth".


No, that's not it at all. I wholeheartedly agree that speed and virtuosity for its own sake do not equal music. My preference for the long cadenza is just that -- a preference that has nothing to do with any critical review or written opinion. It is my own feeling that it works better musically. As I mentioned before, it could be a result of my having been exposed to that version first (in my extreme youth), but now I don't think so. Had I heard a good performance of the short one first and was then exposed to the long one, I think the outcome would have been the same.

morakeo
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Postby morakeo » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:46 am

So where do you live now? I grew up in New York. And after leaving SF last year I went to New York again for a couple of months and then back to Greece. Where in NY where you? I agree with everything you wrote about philosophy and ancient Greece. :D

Black_N°_1
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Postby Black_N°_1 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:45 am

morakeo wrote:Have you ever read Horowitz's opinion on the candenzas? He talked about this during an interview which has been published nowadays.


Horowitz: "I play the original cadenza in the first movement. Rachmaninoff always played it too. You know, the cadenza really builds up to the end of the concerto. The alternate cadenza is like an ending in itself. It's not good to end the concerto before it's over!"

Marie-Lyne
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Postby Marie-Lyne » Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:09 pm

Maybe, but I think both cadenzas are interesting in their own way....matter of taste I think.
Être vaut mieux qu'avoir.

Amphissa
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Postby Amphissa » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:42 am

Black_N°_1 wrote:Horowitz: "I play the original cadenza in the first movement. Rachmaninoff always played it too. You know, the cadenza really builds up to the end of the concerto. The alternate cadenza is like an ending in itself. It's not good to end the concerto before it's over!"


The recordings by Horowitz that I have:

1930 with Coates (unedited studio recording) - short cadenza, plus 3 additional cuts in the 2nd movement, and 2 cuts in the 3rd movement.

1941 with Barbirolli (live recording) - short cadenza, plus 1 additional cut in the 2nd movement and 1 cut in the 3rd movement.

1950 with Koussevitzky (live recording) - short cadenza, plus 1 cut in the 2nd movement and 1 cut in the 3rd.

1951 with Reiner (studio recording) - short cadenza, plus 1 cut in the 2nd movement and 1 cut in the 3rd.

January 1978 with Ormandy/NYPO (live recording) - short cadenza, no additional cuts

April 1978 with Ormandy/PhiladelphiaO (live recording) - short cadenza, no additional cuts

1978 with Mehta (live recording) - short cadenza, no cuts
"Life without music is a mistake." Nietzsche

morakeo
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Postby morakeo » Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:34 pm

Wow! I didn'y know there where so many recordings of the 3rd with Horowitz. Have you heard Barbirolli and Koussevitsky. How is it?

nextren
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Location: USA

RACH 3

Postby nextren » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:25 am

I like Earl Wild's recording. Great music-making!!

Rachmaninoff's version sags in the third movement, because of the cuts there. But you can't get more authentic than his recording.

Pletnev's recording is very laid-back. Not a pulse-pounder. He takes the big cut in the third movement, and slows down too much in the final page. Still a great, fascinating recording...best in many years.

I don't like Hough or Argerich. Too fast, no feeling.

Kocsis is almost too fast but very organized and effective.

Corto
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New to the society

Postby Corto » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:25 am

Hi guys

I came accross the R society today and surprised of how many knowledgeable ppl there are on the subject of the Rach 3!
I am Dutch-American, and while still in the womb (in Holland) would hear Rachmaninov, as my then neighbor, a crazy Dutch virtuoso in love with the great Serguei, played day and night on his Steinway, just on the other side of my parent's bedroom. His son's name was Serge, and Hugo (the pianist), aside of being very good, had this emotional problem. He would start wailing and howling in the strangest fashion after only a few minutes playing -for the same reason his few TV performances had to be interrupted-. He couldn't mange the emotions. These stories were of course told to me a posteriori by my mother...
All this to tell you that SR has had a profound impact on my life.
Now I read your interesting comments and thoughts and my question is: how do I get a copy of all those wonderful recordings of Horowitz and others cited in this chat, given that here in Bali it is very difficult to get classical musical? I have the Ashkenazy/Previn recording which I think is wonderful...

Cheers to all

nextren
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Postby nextren » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:54 pm

To obtain many recordings, try Amazon.com. :idea:

Romy the Cat
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Postby Romy the Cat » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:22 am

Interesting the in this thread no one mention the Gavrilov/Lazarev recording from 1977 – from my perspective the most interesting “standard” Rachmaninoff’s Third Concerto even committed to recording media.

David, the Gieseking with Barbirolli was recorded not in 1941 but in 1939, I believe in was winter. It was a phenomenal a performance, one of my favorite. The very next year Gieseking played the very same concerto with Mengelberg and it was one of the most revolting performances of the Third that I ever heard. Go figure…

Rgs
Romy the Cat

Amphissa
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Postby Amphissa » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:21 am

Romy the Cat wrote:Interesting the in this thread no one mention the Gavrilov/Lazarev recording from 1977 – from my perspective the most interesting “standard” Rachmaninoff’s Third Concerto even committed to recording media.

Romy the Cat


Yes, you are quite right, Romy. I have enjoyed the LP very much, thanks to you. Unfortunately, this recording was never released on CD, so fewer people will hear this fine performance. And even more unfortunately, Gavrilov's later recording with Muti, which is available on CD, is not worth the time required to listen.
"Life without music is a mistake." Nietzsche

Amphissa
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Postby Amphissa » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:22 am

Romy the Cat wrote:Interesting the in this thread no one mention the Gavrilov/Lazarev recording from 1977 – from my perspective the most interesting “standard” Rachmaninoff’s Third Concerto even committed to recording media.

Romy the Cat


Yes, you are quite right, Romy. I have enjoyed the LP very much, thanks to you. Unfortunately, this recording was never released on CD, so fewer people will hear this fine performance. And even more unfortunately, Gavrilov's later recording with Muti, which is available on CD, is not worth the time required to listen.
"Life without music is a mistake." Nietzsche

morakeo
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Postby morakeo » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:12 am

Has anyone heard Horowitz with Barbirolli or Koussevitsky?

Amphissa
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Postby Amphissa » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:14 am

morakeo wrote:Has anyone heard Horowitz with Barbirolli or Koussevitsky?


Yes, I have both of those recordings, as I mentioned in my post above. What would you like to know about them?
"Life without music is a mistake." Nietzsche

mikhailp
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Postby mikhailp » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:45 am

PLease do tell! I haven't listened to all of his recordings of the third concerto. Has anybody who has noticed any major differences betwen them? I remember him saying that he was barely given any time when they recorded the first one...


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